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7OOTnegaTerces said:

NetRunner Simplified

11/08/2011

US  

I'm really, Really, REALLY board with the lethargic pace of the NR boards these days, so, since we can't work on the 1.8 errata right now, I propose a new topic:

NetRunner is an awesome game.  Hands down it is one of the best (if not THE BEST) CCG ever created.  It has but one mortal flaw, an impossibly steep learning curve.  Once you get the hang of the game, NetRunner is loads of fun to play, but it's that initial hazing that drives most new players away after (or even before) only their first game.

Star Wars, another CCG created by Richard Garfield and a very good game a well, has begun to suffer from the same problem.  With the release of the final first three movies in the story line, a blitz of new expansions hit the scene and vastly complicated (and improved) the game.  However, unlike NetRunner, Star Wars started out as a much simpler game.  Thus, despite the expanded complexness of the game, new players can lessen the learning curve by ignoring the new expansions and playing the game according to the old rules.

I would like to propose a similar solution, the formulation of a 'super-simplified' version of NetRunner.  The SS version would contain all the key core concepts new players would need to learn and become familiar with to move on to the 'real' game, but be stripped of virtually everything else.

In traces, for instance, both players would use a single die to represent their Link or Trace value, with the highest roller winning the trace (on a tie, both would roll again).  All base-link or link modifying effects would be ignored (so yes, both Wired Switchboard and Cry Baby would be useless).


So, what do you guys think?  What aspects of the game are essential and must be kept?  What parts can be thrown out?  Are there any in the middle, things that should be kept, but can be simplified?  While I don't think it would be a good idea to 'modify' the behavior of effects of any specific cards (so that the new players don't have to relearn how to use that card), are there any that should/maybe be banned?

WormholeSurfer said:

Re: NetRunner Simplified

11/08/2011

FR  

Hi 700 TT i find your idea, on the basics great and very interesting .

first to reply on your ask i don't really know which things could be simplified or removed because to me the game isn't complex ( try VTES...Corunea, ... you'll see;))
Your idea of using a dice for trace/link is cool yes but going over that that on simplification is too risky to me ...

don't think i'm against you, it is the opposite i also want new players and want to dynamize the game.

I think the real NR pb isn't its complexity it is that cards are not available and the game itself isn't know from players !

The think i propose is too make a tutorial video explaining the game ( like someone i don't remember the name already suggests here some weeks ago...)i can care of it but my non native english will slow the thing.

this could let players learn the game easily, the KEY of our world ( mean our wourld agenda are video, we must use it)

NR isn't know from all so we have to overflow the internet ( forum, facebook, ...) whatever you respond try to put NR in your answer and link NRO, that's what i do, maybe it is crazy yes but if it can bring us new players ...) and surely the best thing is to do that on forums and conventions ( 700TT if you can do this in US Forum it is cool ( i already do that on French ones ...)

One thing that could make the game more known would be to create some mini virtual expansions based on our world event or released films, presenting the expansions in videos and uploading them to youtube with link on the video to redirect them here ...( i'm planning to create a such video for presenting Open War and Deep run ...but since Playful is sleeping all is down for now)

Even if players find NRO, know how to play they need cards, there is many decks or starter post here But i think starter lists are mainly usefull for expert ones since beginner can't create decks ( maybe a creation deck guideline should be usefull) so the best thing could be to create around 2-6 deck beginner deck but showing to beginner all aspects of the game .I know that such deck exists but the links are anywhere and it is pretty difficult for a beginenr to search for ( and for experts ones too !! since the forum is pretty "bad" done)
the must would be a section in the headsite called BEGIN or something like that with ready to print pdf decks.

Bastien the World Champion is creating a programm able to :

create deck and export in text/pdf ( we can search cards by key words, words, types, ...)

for instance it do only that BUT
he will inetegrate ALL virtual expansion
and he will integrate Aurel's programm ! able to generate starters and boosters ( from anay expansions !)

so we could easily add a section in this programm dedicated to beginner deck
then we could put online here the programm .

Since i find the process to put decks online here very difficult and finally not more usefull than a simple deck list maybe it could be replace by a section composed by "bastien's programm "files letting people download them and open by the prog to directly see the decks .

In fact writing this i realize than most of things that we can do to make the gale accessible would be to change NRO but Franck is also very busy ...

I sent him a mail and he told me that he could be back soon but since there is a lot of work i guess he can't do all fast ( and it is normal)

so we have to give him money or we have to create an other site not a slighly new differetn one replacing this one but a complement based on beginner.
we should define what we need on this site :

1 st thing : a real forum with function sto search in ;)

second problem

7OOTnegaTerces said:

Re: NetRunner Simplified

11/08/2011

US  

Sorry, Wormhole, but I beg to differ with you.  I've many friends and I've told ALL of them about NetRunner and tried to get them to play it.  Only one of them has become interested in the game and suffers from the problem you mentioned of not having any cards to play with, though between MWS and GCCG this really is not that much of a problem.  The NR community is so small that 90% of the time you'd have to play NetRunner over the computer anyways, as there isn't rarely anyone near by to play a 'live' game with.

As for the other 99% of my friends, of the ones that were interested enough in CCG's to play a game of NetRunner, all got a universal bug-eyed look after playing one game and politely turned down all offers to play a second, complaining that the game was (and I quote) "Just a bit too complicated".

And really, when you think about it (if you can remember back that far), one's first six or so games are often spent trying to get one's head around how the various parts of the game (data forts, ice, icebreakers, agendas, etc.) work.  NetRunner IS a complicated game, and further more (as has been pointed out elsewhere) involves a lot of poker like bluffing.  So you have a large game with multiple complex parts (protecting your forts, making a run, etc.) and involves poker level bluffing (and poker takes years to successfully master), and which, on top of that, is asymmetrical, so once you learn one side of the game you then must start all over and learn the other side as well (or at the same time).

NetRunner is NOT an easy game to get started in, and merely telling people about it will NOT get a lot of new people to take up the game.  After all, if publicity was the only issue, don't you think Wizards of the Coast would have been able to make NetRunner successful?  WotC makes money by selling games, so they have a vested interest in making all of their games successful!


We NEED to create a 'super-simplified' version of NetRunner if we are to get a lot of new people to take up the game.

WormholeSurfer said:

Re: NetRunner Simplified

11/08/2011

FR  

Hi 700 !

point 1: i agree with you that on x people we show the game only a few really get interested by it .
i no more count the number of demontration i've made where people politly declined the 2nd too ...
we just have to demonstrate more to have more .

point 2: getting  cards isn't a pb since there is online playing and mainly the possibility to have cards in Jpeg / pdf ( i also have the official cards on pdf thanks to playful)

i agree too to say that NR community is so small that mainly if we wanna play we must do it online, that's the reason to "make" players ( see point 1)i do'nt have any pb to play against real opponent in Paris with all the works i've done, there is players ( only time is missing personnaly...)

You're also very right to say that our first 4, 5, or yes maybe 6 games are dedicated to learn it but i can't see where is the pb .
As you mentionned poker is very simple to learn but very difficult to master, the Paralel with NR is the same, i've develop a method to learn to players the game and most of them can play in 10 minutes ! BUT Mastering NR is a long road, you mentionned 6 games, i would mentionned 6 years ! ;) no, it was a joke but becoming an "expert" players take time, it is normal to spend several games to fix the weakness of acknoledge of new players .

I'm sorry to contradict you but NR IS an easy game, easy to understand but you're right difficult to play since rules and mecanics are very deep and that's make the game such replayable and valuable, if that wasn't this maybe i would't play anymore .

i will contradict you on other point, make the game easier isn't THE key to find player i'm sorry, players finds the game difficult only when the try it and they try it only if they know it... and players can't know it if we don't show us the game .

please read ( i can't find where .. maybe on Boardgamegeek) the real story about NR and the fact that WOTC printed too much cards .. if they ( R Garfield ) printed the right prevision .. surely our game would still be here.

ANyway it doesn't solve your problem and even if a disagre and find it useless i can /want help you BUT i do'nt know how to make this game more easy ...the only things you mentionned was to transform Link/trace by dices but for the remains... how to make it easy without changing the game ?

personnaly i'd spend my time to promote the game than doing this ...

If people are really interested by this game and if you demonstrate the game correctly i think people will understand fast,if they dislike the game .. maybe they should return to MAgic, bvecause it means maybe we do'nt need them ...

As Richard Garfield Said : " In MAgic, CArds plays you, in NR YOU plays the cards" all is that and that's why the game is complex ...
even when players will know the entire rule they will find it complex .. not by the rule but by the deepest of mecanics and how to play .

We must make the difference between learn to play with the rules and How to play well ...

Hope You understand what i mean ( due to my bad english and many things in my mind goes at the same times)

anyway, i would help you more on creating a video online tutorial than yours idea but ...do'nt know if it will satisfy you ...

Sorry to me NR can't be easier to explain on its basics ...

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