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Playful_EE said:

Errata v1.8: Validation of UPDATES

10/07/2010

FR  

WormholeSurfer said:

Re: Errata v1.8: Validation of UPDATES

10/07/2010

FR  

Hi everyone, hi playful

I agree with you in all point except for :

D4a, D4b, you're right on theses points but i can't really see where is the problem if we don't add this ruling...

D14a Replicator, you're strictly right but what about one day create a wall or codegate that trace ?
to me the green colour only represents an ice breaker that is not a normal wall, codegate or sentry breaker...
idem for D14c Reflector and D14b Flak

D17. Haunting Inquisition, i still strongly disagree with this interpretation...


for the others points i agree with You no problems

7OOTnegaTerces said:

Re: Errata v1.8: Validation of UPDATES

10/07/2010

US  

Frizzler said:

Re: Errata v1.8: Validation of UPDATES

10/09/2010

DE  

Playful_EE said:

Re: Errata v1.8: Validation of UPDATES

10/11/2010

FR  

Dear Frizzler,

No problem.
I'll take care of your additional points, and include them whenever necessary.
I'll post an updated thread that will contain corresponding ruling texts.

To 700TT,
your remarks will be answered also in this thread.

Rgds and good play
Playful_EE

Playful_EE said:

Re: Errata v1.8: Validation of UPDATES

10/17/2010

FR  

7OOTnegaTerces said:

Re: Errata v1.8: Validation of UPDATES

10/18/2010

US  

D18 (Death from Above and face down cards)

FIRST:
Why do we care what the original and printed trash cost of a node or upgrade is with DFA?  When you play with DFA you get to trash cards for free, so there is no need for anyone to look at the card, as you can just assume [0] for it's cost. New Galveston City Grid, or any similar trash cost increasing card, must be rezzed in order to be active.  And if it is rezzed, you can not only see it and what it's trash cost is, you can see how much it would add to the trash cost of any card, rezzed, exposed, or hidden.  Thus you can state categorically, without ever needing to look at any cards, the trash cost of any face down card when DFA is played.  It's either [0] if there are no trash cost enhancing cards, or [X], where X is the sum total of all trash cost enhancements. The only way this could ever become "ugly" was if there was some special "trash-preventing-effect" on a hidden card that wasn't your standard trash cost.  Then a third party might need to be called in, but that would be an issue raised, not by DFA, but by card X.

SECOND:
NGCC or any other trash enhancing card states that the Runner must pay an additional [X] in order to trash a card.  If the Runner does not (and they may refuse to), the card is not trashed, even if the Runner plays some effect that tries to trash that card.  Thus when DFA meets NGCC the extra [2] the Runner has to pay is actually a completely separate effect from DFA.  It is both generated and resolved by NGCC.  And remember, NGCC doesn't care how or why you are trying to trash any one node or upgrade.  It just cares that you are. And whenever you do try to, NGCC steps in like a sheild, demanding [2] before it will let you proceed with the trashing. Pay and you may then trash the card.  Don't pay, and you can not.  It works in exactly the same manner as Full Body Conversion works for mead damage (I mean MEAT, meat damage - and I swear I hadn't been touching the stuff!) done to the Runner.
Really, this extra [2] bits should be considered a separate payment event, even when trashing cards normally.  Thus, a dumb Runner who tries to trash a card that they just have enough bit to do so, but not enough to pay NGCC, would loose all those bit to no effect, as they paid the card's trash cost, but then did not pay NGCC so that it would let them successfully complete the trashing (DUDE! That would make an awesome one shot ambush upgrade!).
Which is why it makes no sense to demand that the Runner who wishes to play DFA must pay for NGCC to play DFA, since you are now trying to control the effect of one card via a completely different and separate second card! In reality, the true effect order and interaction when playing DFA is this:

1)Play DFA. Runner may now trash all cards for free. Go to step 2.
2)Is there a card to trash?
      Yes. Go to step 3.
      No. DFA is now finished.
3)Prepare to trash the card. Are there any trash cost enhancers in play?
      No. Trash card for free, go to step 2.
      Yes. Go to Step 4.
4)Set X equal to the sum of the trash enhancements. Do you wish to pay [X] to trash this card?
      Yes. Pay [X] and trash the card. Go to step 2.
      No. Card is not trashed. Go to Step 2.

Thus the Runner who plays DFA on a fort containing NGCC may choose which cards they wish to pay the extra [2] for to trash, not because of anything that DFA does, but because that is the way that NGCC works.  Always.


Remember folks, we're trying to settle the interaction between two cards, which means that, logically, some effects will be generated by both cards and must be dealt with by both cards.  It is important, therefore, in such situations, to separate the effects of the two cards and make sure you keep them separated.  That way you avoid trying to fix the effects of card A in the effects ruling of card B. With the way DFA is currently worded, any extra trash costs generated by other cards must be dealt with by those other cards. Any attempt to make DFA work such that the Runner must pay [2] per rezzed or exposed node/upgrade to play DFA would require a complete revision of DFA's card text to allow it to manipulate the effects of other cards (it would bypass NGCC's trash enhancement for a lesser cost of it's own), but that would then contradict the game principles discussed in my Sword and Shield post: http://www.netrunneronline.com/forum/?thread=816#id816 .

Playful_EE said:

Re: Errata v1.8: Validation of UPDATES

10/19/2010

FR  

Playful_EE said:

Re: Errata v1.8: Validation of UPDATES

10/19/2010

FR  

Dear all,

Please correct the following topic numbers when you refer to them:

- "Disinfectant Inc and Socket/Pipe counters of Viral Pipeline" is the D31 (and not D32 as written above)

- "Back Door to Netwatch with Crash Space is the D32 (and not D33 as written above)

- "Corruption played several times" is the D33 (and not D34 as written above)

Thanks and sorry for the mistake.
Playful_EE

WormholeSurfer said:

Re: Errata v1.8: Validation of UPDATES

10/19/2010

FR  

Hi everybody hi Playful

Just one question :

D18d. Kilroy Was Here

Why applied New galveston Effect for cards STORED in R&D that we would trash with Kilroy ?

i think it is a mistake ...

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